tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post115079850846569531..comments2023-11-03T03:26:57.112-05:00Comments on Planet Grenada: sleeper cell (part 2)Abdul-Halim V.http://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151292172691955982006-06-25T22:22:00.000-05:002006-06-25T22:22:00.000-05:00You don't need to apologize for the comments... es...You don't need to apologize for the comments... especially if you are so on target. That's what the comment section is there for.Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151290346156022412006-06-25T21:52:00.000-05:002006-06-25T21:52:00.000-05:00//Hence my comment that by showing that the people...//Hence my comment that by showing that the people in certain religions are "flawed" like everybody else, it deflates the idea that somehow Muslims(or any other group for that matter) are somehow "different" or even "better" than anybody else. In the end that humanization, that normalization is good (IMHO) because it deflates the egos of all involved. when these egos are deflated then humble dialog and acceptance of other people can happen.//<BR/><BR/>Sondjata, are you Muslim? I'm only asking b/c I don't think you are, and if you're not, then you can't really speak for the Muslim identity. And if you are, I'm just curious as to why on earth you would think this "real" portrayal is praiseworthy since every Muslim in this country (and outside of it) knows that it is always the deeply flawed Muslim who gets the screen time (see Planet of the Arabs for an example, or Not Without My Daughter). <BR/><BR/>This isn't about "deflating" the egos of Muslim viewers. It's about titillation (necessary for those premium cable shows -- they don't go far without excessive drug use or sexuality being portrayed). It's about non-Muslim ideas of who the "good" Muslim is, and it's about joining in the demonization of Muslims who happen to be devout, conservative, even "fundamentalist" (whatever that is). <BR/><BR/>My daughter isn't even a teenager yet, and she's known for years, just from her own eyes and ears, that she should never expect to see her reality reflected in the American media (not as a "good" Muslima and likely not as a Latina, but that's another kettle o' fish). Of course, now we get into the idea of whether or not Muslims (or anyone) should rely on the media for positive imagery for children and / or themselves and how much it matters and I really hate taking other people's threads off topic. So sorry for the multiple comments!!! -- UmmZaidAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151290013193681142006-06-25T21:46:00.000-05:002006-06-25T21:46:00.000-05:00//And yes, there is extremism in Islam as there is...//And yes, there is extremism in Islam as there is in any proselytizing religion: the idea that you (the practicioner) is right and all other are wrong to some degree. Such ideas are the womb that breeds religious intolerance among other things.//<BR/><BR/>Oh please. Everyone has these ideas. the liberal thinks he or she is right and everyone else is wrong. So does the conservative. So does the advocate of free-trade or the advocate of socialism or whateverism. Everyone's an extremist, even you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151289945768719482006-06-25T21:45:00.000-05:002006-06-25T21:45:00.000-05:00//Pornography is normal human behavior caught on f...//Pornography is normal human behavior caught on filmor drawn. Again it takes the adherence to a specific ideology to deem the artistic expression of such normal human behavoir as "bad.' clearly all societies don't deem such things bad//<BR/><BR/>Sondjata, the point is that even the "good" Muslims in this show were "bad" by the standards of the Qur'an and Sunnah. I'm not a relativist, and I really don't care if "all societies" agree with what Islam teaches or not. My point is that the American media, and by extension the American people, can not tolerate the "good" Muslim who actually adheres to even the most basic teachings of the religion -- no drinking, praying 5 times, no fornication, and so forth. The "good" Muslims, the "moderate" ones, as defined in fictional things like this or in the "non fiction" newspaper articles and television specials are the ones who more closely adhere to a secularist, liberal lifestyle, where "Muslim" becomes a socio-political / ethnic identity. We have seen the "good" and "bad" so-and-so imagery being played out with media images of Africans / African Americans, Latinos, Asians, Jews, and others. I would think that as a Muslim I'm allowed to air my two cents about the "good" and "bad" Mozrab.-- UZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151026180690128892006-06-22T20:29:00.000-05:002006-06-22T20:29:00.000-05:00Do you honestly feel that the typical portrayal of...Do you honestly feel that the typical portrayal of Muslim is so noble and heroic that it needs to be "humanized" by including extreme vices?Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1151011030210610952006-06-22T16:17:00.000-05:002006-06-22T16:17:00.000-05:00I don't think fornication, random acts of violence...<I>I don't think fornication, random acts of violence, and participation in pornography and prostitution show "humanity."</I><BR/><BR/>Well that depends on how you define "humanity". I define humanity in terms that include imperfections that manifest themselves in various means. For example, Fornication is simply intercourse without "someones" blessing. Sexual intercourse itself is quite normal and human and only someone drinking massive amounts of ideological kool-aid would think otherwise. Pornography is normal human behavior caught on filmor drawn. Again it takes the adherence to a specific ideology to deem the artistic expression of such normal human behavoir as "bad.' clearly all societies don't deem such things bad. random acts of violence are things that happen. We agree that such behavior expressed by adults with normal levels of self control is bad but my point is, and is proven the world over, that religion, in and of itself is incapable of stopping certain types of persons from indulging in such behaviour. Hence my comment that by showing that the people in certain religions are "flawed" like everybody else, it deflates the idea that somehow Muslims(or any other group for that matter) are somehow "different" or even "better" than anybody else. In the end that humanization, that normalization is good (IMHO) because it deflates the egos of all involved. when these egos are deflated then humble dialog and acceptance of other people can happen.<BR/><BR/>And yes, there is extremism in Islam as there is in any proselytizing religion: the idea that you (the practicioner) is right and all other are wrong to some degree. Such ideas are the womb that breeds religious intolerance among other things.<BR/><BR/>Cheery -osondjatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06770540934297277676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1150945981932382342006-06-21T22:13:00.000-05:002006-06-21T22:13:00.000-05:00Wa alaikum salaam UZ,Yes, yes, yes. My thoghts exa...Wa alaikum salaam UZ,<BR/><BR/>Yes, yes, yes. My thoghts exactly. I've actually rented the whole thing at Blockbuster and saw it over 2-3 days. So I unfortuately know the scene you are talking about. <BR/><BR/>I think it would have been totally appropriate to show how the terrorists manifested various degrees of hypocrisy but I think the show went too far to the point of not being realistic. <BR/><BR/>It would have been more compelling if they had been more moderate.Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1150944907721599222006-06-21T21:55:00.000-05:002006-06-21T21:55:00.000-05:00Salaam 'Alaikum//I think such "humanity" would ser...Salaam 'Alaikum<BR/><BR/>//I think such "humanity" would serve to undercut the vitrol of some of the more extreme elements within Islam //<BR/><BR/>I don't think fornication, random acts of violence, and participation in pornography and prostitution show "humanity." Personally, I'm tired of the only "good" TV Mozrabs being the ones who are "bad" by the Book of God and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace be upon him). Even the "good Muslima" in this show shakes hands with guys -- I guess those of us who keep our hands to ourselves are part of the "extreme" then (well, as are most / all women who veil...).<BR/><BR/>The "foibles" Abdul-Halim mentions (in this show) are in themselves the result of an extremism that has poisoned the Muslim people (there is no extremism in Islam... the extremism is in human beings...). A-H, you will need to do some eye covering in one of the later episodes, when they portray a completely unrealistic (to my mind) incident with two friends of Farik's in a hotel. -UZAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1150931158338367192006-06-21T18:05:00.000-05:002006-06-21T18:05:00.000-05:00I agree that certain flaws can humanize a characte...I agree that certain flaws can humanize a character. But I wish there was more thought about degree and nuance. A lot of the characters were overdone so instead of humanizing them, some of them were kinda cartoonish (so to speak).<BR/><BR/>Plus, people already have an intensely negative picture of Muslims in a lot of circles. Many people already believe Muslims are flawed. So that's not something which needs to be emphasized. That would just add to the demonization which is going on.<BR/><BR/>I think Oz did a MUCH better job of portraying flawed, human Muslims than Sleeper Cell. I would even say that's the best fictional portrayal of Muslims in America on film or tv that I've ever seen.Abdul-Halim V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03811018180731403335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11506454.post-1150925449835543932006-06-21T16:30:00.000-05:002006-06-21T16:30:00.000-05:00I think it's a good thing that the human flaws of ...I think it's a good thing that the human flaws of the Muslim characters are "front and center" given that no religion has or can cure all peoples "ills". I think theses flaws does more to humanise Muslims than any "Pius" ones would. Indeed I think in the larger Muslim world I think such "humanity" would serve to undercut the vitrol of some of the more extreme elements within Islam (as should be done in Christianity and Judaism).sondjatahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06770540934297277676noreply@blogger.com